Yet another practical argument against marriage

Spotted this on RRU:

why-marry

The judge has finally ruled and Kelis is going home with a new baby boy and $44,000/month — that is $528,000 per year. The judge in her child support case with her soon to be ex-husband Nas awarded Kelis way more than the $5k Nas said he wanted to give. Plus the judge ordered Nas to pay for the baby’s nurse, prenatal expenses and medical insurance. Oh, and $35,000 to Kelis’ lawyer.

The testosterone and VENOM from our favorite male RRU posters (and Ros — lol!) is bout to get more vicious than ever!!!!

Ladies — BRACE YOURSELVES!!!

Now I’m not commenting on the specifics of this case, I don’t know Nas, Kelis or their situation. The point is that having had the discussion over and over again with positive, upwardly mobile sisters about their desire to get married, have kids, and the inevitable man bashing comments I submit the following. Like it or not there are very public stories about the financial repercussions of divorce. These stories are FAR more impactful and well publicized than any of the stories about happily married couples making the long haul.

All I’m saying is like it or not, this is one of the big reasons “he” hesitates.

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0 Comments

  • kriscoa

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    Are you serious??? This is soooo very lame in terms of big reasons “he” hesitates… most men are making Nas’ $$$$… so being hit with $44,000/ month is not even on their radars… (lmao) puhleeeze… this speaks less to marriage, IMO, then does to who are we creating our futures with… futures being our children… who wants to procreate with someone who doesn’t even want to be financial responsible for what they’ve helped to create… now does Kelis “NEED” $44,000/month, IMO, I doubt it very seriously, but then again, I don’t live her lifestyle… I’ve raised a child on my own, with no child support, on a lot less than that… it can be done… you need to change the title of the post, lmao…

  • kriscoa

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    ooops, meant to say, most men AREN’t making Nas’ $$$$$

  • admin

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    Don’t make this about Nas or how much money he makes.

    If a guy earns $100k/year and in a divorce settlement is required to pay thousands per month because “she” was carrying their yet UNBORN child and that story got out you don’t think that would reinforce a moment of pause?

    On the other side its not about the issue of raising children alone, or the choices that lead up to that.

    Two folks are dating, no kids, and having a really good time. Trips, vaca, nights out etc. “She” wants to get married, but “he” likes things just as they are…

    Apply story above.

  • LHC - Sunshine

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    It is a matter of how we enter into relationships, how we choose our mates and how well we get to know them before we get married. What do we value and how do we treat one another…

    Although my ex and i split due to infidelity and some other issues, we kept in mind why we were together in the first place and managed to treat eachother fairly in the end. We were reasonable in dividing up things and did what we could to keep a very hurtful situation from getting out of hand. It should not be about hurting the other person and exacting revenge. That is ridiculous.

    That is why I have no problem with a pre-nup. I have been chastised for saying so but I don’t see any big deal.

    Situations like this should of course be examined but as a way to help educate ourselves and our progeny on how not to behave – NOT to give an excuse to shy away from a beautiful institution such as marriage.

    Rotten apples have not stopped me from making apple pie. I just look to a better orchard for a better crop.

  • kriscoa

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    I re-read ya post… and if the question is or if ya point is the reason “he” hesitates is because “he” is concerned about the financial repercussions of divorce, then yes, he should hesitate, and he should continue to be single and do him!

    If he chooses to marry, and the marriage unfortunately ends in divorce, yes, there are financial settlements attached to the dissolution… I don’t know if it’s fair for a husband to still have to take care of his wife (alimony) and keep her in the lifestyle she was accustomed to during the marriage when that marriage is no more… but in the case of dissolution where a child(ren) are involved, damn right! He should take care of his child(ren) and quit all the hemming and hawwing about it… again… I don’t know that it takes $44,000/month to raise anyone’s or any ONE child… but hey… that’s for the court to work out… and the court, typically, bases this on, what the noncustodial has demonstrated they have the potential to earn… it’s not some # they just pulled out of the sky…

    “He” who looks for a reason to hesitate, usually can find one… 🙂

  • Maurice Dolberry

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    The disbursement of both child support and alimony are based on antiquated, patriarchal, and patronizing views of women. While it may be financially rewarding, the basis for decisions like these is the chauvenistic view of women as inferior and incapable of supporting themselves and their children.

    In addition, the one-size-fits-all, “percentange of income” child support is not related to the expense of actually taking care of a child. It is a de facto form of punitive damages that are awarded to the “helpless woman” for the man who has abdicated his paternal responsibilities.

    I have no remorse or sympathy for men who actually do deny their children. Whatever penalties they face, hardships they encounter, or other pain they feel is incomparable to the damage they do to their sons and daughters.

    However, this scenario is not relevant to me. I’m single, have no children, and minimal wealth. But when I do have children, they will be guranteed a father for the rest of their lives. So for me, cases like this are an enormous “marriage deterrent”, because I know that regardless of my financial and personal involvement in my children’s lives, if my future wife and I get divorced, it is very likely that she will get custody of the children, child support, and alimony.

    I like the idea of love and marriage and “soulmates” and all, but I don’t know if I really need that gamble.

  • LHC - Sunshine

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    Marriage is also a business relationship as well. You should not enter into any other business with a mismatched, inexperienced, immature partner and a hammered out agreement. Why would you do it here?
    You re-evaluate and reinvest in your business on a regular basis to remain successful so treat a marriage the same of course hopefully adding in some love as well…

    approaching it as such would help you beat the odds on that gamble.

    I believe that people should not look outwardly so much at these examples as deterrents encouraging them to NOT do it at all but just as lessons of how not to do things

  • Cococovergirl

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    Ladies, in the beginning stages of a relationship/courtship or whatever you’d like to call it. You should ask basic questions like what’s your first and last name, do you have children? if not, do you see children in your future. How do you feel about marriage and so forth. Based on his answers, if what he says isn’t something you can work with move on. It’s that simple. Now, does Kelis need that amount of money to raise one child no. However, I don’t think Nas is making tht kind of money anymore, so, I’m sure that amount is gonna get adjusted in the near future.

  • LHC - Sunshine

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    that should have read “You should not enter into any other business with a mismatched, inexperienced, immature partner OR WITHOUT a hammered out agreement. Why would you do it here?

  • kokoesquire

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    Families are foundations to the black community and right now its not looking good for black folks. This is in part, to the decline in the black family structure. To the extent that you care about the future of the black community, I don’t see how any person, particularly an educated black person can make a case AGAINST marriage. Its just stupid. Simply put.

    With that said, one should think thoroughly about their decision to get married. Although marriage may enter your mind when you find LOVE, but the union of marriage is really a legal status. It protects your spouse, your children, and everything you work for in this world. It also ensures that should you become ill, a loved one will be the person making decisions based on your interests, and not the court.

    In the case of Nas & Kelis, I’m sure the judge used a statutory guideline in determining how much money Nas has to pay. I’m sure the amount doesn’t hurt Nas. It will benefit his child. What’s wrong with a black man taking care of his child? I cannot believe he said he will pay $5K child support. That’s trifling, but not surprising, given the fact that 70% of black kids are born out of wedlock.

    Men need to step up, make a sacrifice and be men. Take care of your children. Stop being afraid of losing money. Money isn’t everything and by taking care of a family you gain sooooooo much more.

  • admin

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    Kokoesquire you make a valid point about family being the foundation of the black community. I agree.

    >Men need to step up, make a sacrifice and be men. Take care of your children. Stop being afraid of losing money.

    I think its pretty easy for ladies to state so simply what “men need to do”. It’s a one-sided view. In every case I’ve ever heard of with the exception of Halle Berry and Britney Spears “he” ends up paying. Also with such a high divorce rate, it’s obvious that folks haven’t figured out how to keep it together. That’s not a “what a man needs to do” problem. It’s a what WE need to do problem.

    LHC-

    I agree with you about business screening analogy HOWEVER, this business is connected most directly to the genitals which don’t have a whole lot of brains. It’s just a little easier said than done.

    Maurice-

    >when I do have children, they will be guranteed a father for the rest of their lives. So for me, cases like this are an enormous “marriage deterrent”, because I know that regardless of my financial and personal involvement in my children’s lives, if my future wife and I get divorced, it is very likely that she will get custody of the children, child support, and alimony. …I don’t know if I really need that gamble.

    Thanks for telling the truth brother. I didn’t want to be the only a-hole with my hand raised. LOL!!! [name the movie reference]

  • LHC - Sunshine

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    “HOWEVER, this business is connected most directly to the genitals which don’t have a whole lot of brains.” = I think it is more than that. It is connected most directly to neediness whether that is sexual, emotional or whatever.

    I think men and women marry for different reasons and don’t always communicate those reasons honestly to one another. There is simply not enough honest and meaningful communication prior to marriage.

    I can see how if one gets married for financial stability then one will seek to keep that in the event of divorce. Unfortunately, emotion – sometimes revenge – comes into play and sends things on a crazy course.

    People get married for a myriad of different reasons and those are personal to them so I will try not to criticize ones that don’t fit into my idea of a good reason. However, Koko is right: it is a legal status. And from that perspective, no matter the reason behind the marriage, the terms of being together as well as, unfortunately, the terms for splitting should be discussed and agreed upon. They can be reviewed and altered later even if mutual agreement is made. I just think being prepared lends itself to less confusison in the chance that things go awry. If you stay together then great! You won’t have to worry.

  • "C"

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    Marriage is just what it is, a relationship. A relationship that requires work, sacrifice of self, and total understanding and communication in order to be sustained and in order to be what God intended it to be. If we go into the communion of marrige and think that divorce is an answer or an option, then we have missed the boat all together and are bound to an ending that is not good for any involved.

  • kokoesquire

    Reply Reply July 26, 2009

    Tackling your response statement by statement.

    1. I think its pretty easy for ladies to state so simply what “men need to do”. It’s a one-sided view.

    This is true. I wouldn’t ordinarily frame a statement this way. however, your synopsis of the Kelis situation was preented as “one more reason black men are scared of marriage.” While I appreciate your honesty, I stand by my statement-made in response to your assertion-If having to pay the mother of your child, child support based on statutory guidelines gives you pause to get married, what does that say about men? it may seem bizarre to most of us, because of the amount of wealth that Nas has amassed. We don’t know how much money he makes and while I grew up on far less, why should Nas’ child have less? Is it because we believe that black children aren’t deserving of the type of lifestyle their father can provide? i can think of a number of ways this adversely affects black children. Bottom Line: black men need to take care of their kids, irrespective of whether or not they are married to their child’s mother. Don’t be cheap with your children. Other options: birth control.

    2. In every case I’ve ever heard of with the exception of Halle Berry and Britney Spears “he” ends up paying.

    He ends up paying b/c men tend to earn far more than women. This is a fact. There are statutory guidelines in place regarding child support based on parents income. As for spousal support, if you can’t afford the payments, cts will allow a modification.

    3. “Also with such a high divorce rate, it’s obvious that folks haven’t figured out how to keep it together. That’s not a “what a man needs to do” problem. It’s a what WE need to do problem.”

    I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENNT!!! What do we need to do to take back our communities? for men and women to be able to work together for the future of the black community? This is the million dollar question.

  • Chris

    Reply Reply July 27, 2009

    This a subject most women won’t admit is BullShit!
    But they looks pretty disappointing watching them try to justify it…….

    The guy that doesn’t make Nas money is the guy this really effects….this is why it needs to change.

    Think Im getting hitched any time soon….why should I.
    I can shack up and get the milk for free or take a chance of losing all I’ve ever worked for….

    What would u do ladies?….truthfully

  • Shawn

    Reply Reply July 27, 2009

    I don’t see this as a reason not to get married, but as a reason not to get divorced. It makes me think that people should be careful in their mate selection process and be willing to do all that it takes to maintain a marriage.

  • Stacia

    Reply Reply July 28, 2009

    I totally agree Shawn.

    But that’s still a lot of money. Who knew Nas had that much Bank. WOW.

  • Stacia

    Reply Reply July 28, 2009

    I can shack up and get the milk for free or take a chance of losing all I’ve ever worked for….

    Why are these the only two choices?
    Chris…this is why some women don’t ever want to shack up..for fear of this very thing. Isn’t this also a way of “using” the other person?

    How about we all grow up.

  • LHC - Sunshine

    Reply Reply July 28, 2009

    “This a subject most women won’t admit is BullShit!
    But they looks pretty disappointing watching them try to justify it…….”

    ??? I don’t see folks trying to justify or deny admission of any type of BS here. Please expound.

    “The guy that doesn’t make Nas money is the guy this really effects….this is why it needs to change.”

    No disagreement that divorce settlements should absolutely not be exorbitant and should not based on retribution.

    “Think Im getting hitched any time soon….why should I.
    I can shack up and get the milk for free or take a chance of losing all I’ve ever worked for….”

    If you and the woman you choose agree to that then go ahead. However, if totally based on your word choice alone, I challenge that the milk would eventually turn sour IF the choice in mate is actually a quality mate. Perhaps it is just semantics but it DOES sound like you would be using the person in such a situation. Love does not survive in an environment with such mistrust and cynicism.

    “What would u do ladies?….truthfully”

    I can only speak for me. Having been through a split, I behaved as much like an logical and reasonable adult as I could (and as he expected – part of why we were together from the beginning). We chose each other very carefully as friends and then later as more, looking at character as much as other things.

    Trust that it is not that I believe you shouldn’t protect yourself (male or female). I’ve already gone on record saying that I have no problem with a prenup. That being said, I am not about to marry someone 1. until we have had the important conversations, 2. unless we truly believe we are compatible on multiple levels 3. before knowing that we can both make a commitment to making it work. (sounds ideal, i know) I know me well enough to know that my character does not allow for me act an ass in this type of situation because I certainly had the opportunity to do so and it wasn’t even remotely appealing to be “that person”.

    It is a matter of the choices we make. When people show you (and sometimes tell you) who they are believe them. Don’t be blinded by the booty or the beauty. Don’t do the betty crocker version of picking a mate.

  • Cole

    Reply Reply July 28, 2009

    It is always cheaper to keep here but some of them dont want to be kept. When a relationships goes south it is hard to predict how a person may react, when their feelings are hurt. Some of us suffer in silence and just get over it. Some of us have to act out. You cannot predict the future. But in this case there were some clear warning signs, but it seems like that was the kind of woman NAS wanted (no dis to Kelis). He is quiet, she was flashy that was thier thing. NAS did get taken to the cleaners a bit but, the judge awarded Kelis the money, dont forget that. It seems(not based on any fact) that NAS wzs going to do the bare mininmun based on his feelings of the split. I dont agree with the terms of the judges decree, but dont forget when Britney freaked out and went through her issues the judge made her pay child support, her and Kevin’s attorney fees, his mortgage/rent. So it looks like the parent with the most is paying the most as it should be. Child support is defintely a trap, but enough people have not taken care of the seeds to make it an issue. Hopefully Kelis is not using the baby as an excuse to not continue her career. And even if you dont marry the states will still make you pay up if its found that you are the birth father. So marriage or no marriage you still will pay

  • Tiiz

    Reply Reply July 28, 2009

    Nas & Kelis: This is an OBVIOUS case of wanting an image. They were considered the “hottest” couple of hip-hop. However, under the surface wasn’t right.

    Maurice: I agree the system is old and joint custody should be the FIRST order of business! as a default. If it’s not possible then things should be put in perspective.
    LHC – Sunshine: I agree with you. HOW we choose our mates. Prenups-naah.

    Agreements in case we can not agree in the future yes. But, if you really loved that person. This should NOT be necessary. Because even if it goes south, you should want the BEST for them.

    We spend more time researching the new car we want to buy, the area we want to buy a house then we do our mates. Our definition of a 10 has to with 36-24-36 than the person within. We don’t have the conversations that we should.

    Top arguments causing divorce: What we are NOT talking about.
    Money = Control – should be agreed upon before hand
    Kids – #, how they should be raised, where they go for the summers, etc. BEFORE marriage
    Sex – women shouldn’t let themselves go and men shouldn’t either! Nor should they let go of the romance. Enough said!

    and lack of…
    communication – learning how to talk to one another
    commitment – this is for a life time.
    patience – don’t sweat the small stuff. Sometimes you should just let the small stuff go and learn to compromise if it means that much to you. (sigh)
    honesty- don’t lie about what you will and won’t accept. It’s not going to change after marriage. If he’s drinking now…he’s going to drink after you get married. If she goes out with her girls now…uhmm…she is going to want to after marriage.

    When things get hard. Then “its over” rather than “work harder.” We are also NOT teaching the NEXT generation HOW to interact with one another. Girls are learning that in order to be valued that they should be HOES and Bitches and Video exhibitionist. Sure its ok to be sexy but that doesn’t mean that you are any less re

    If you have mutual good will for your mate (everything you do…you treat them BETTER than you would treat yourself and THEY do the same). Then there’s NO problem. If you doubt that the other person can do it for you…that’s the problem. You should not marry that person. Wake up people the Black Family is dying and we are responsible.

    I remember reading one article where a 7th grader said he wanted to be a father someday but he didn’t want to get married. WTH? This is a distorted view. If you look at some of the MOST successful and happiest people….they are the ones with functional families that showed them HOW to love and didn’t leave it up to chance.

    I could go on…but I won’t.

  • Tiiz

    Reply Reply July 28, 2009

    oops. the next to last paragraph: girls should learn self respect, to earn respect, and to demand it. Then and ONLY then will the young men learn to give it.

  • Monica

    Reply Reply July 30, 2009

    “All I’m saying is like it or not, this is one of the big reasons “he” hesitates.”

    Any hesitation on “his” (or her) part has more to do with a lack of personal conviction. People have not found ways to live for themselves, think for themselves and act according to their own paradigm. Why should Nas and Kelis’ failed marriage affect your ability to make a marriage work? Do you intend to follow in their footsteps and make their mistakes? It seems like such a contrived rationale and an easy way of getting out of the responsibilities that marriage requires. There is no perfection in life, so why would there be any in marriage? There isn’t always a fairytale ending outside of storybooks. Marriage takes work. The biggest reason why people divorce is not simply financial woes or even infidelity. Marriages fail because people get into them for reasons they cannot fully elucidate.

    Love is a great concept, but not at all a wise reason to marry someone. Is this person’s values the same as your own? Do you share the same ideas about marriage? Have you spoken about expectations, finances, children, goals and what you’ll do when things get tough? If you can’t answer these questions cohesively, then you probably shouldn’t marry each other. Certain conversations do not need to be postponed until after marriage. And, how a person behaves pre-marriage is a great indicator of how he’ll behave during marriage. People need to stop expecting miracles and be real with themselves.

    I think that if you fear marriage, you may not even understand the significance of marriage in the first place. Otherwise, you would ignore the media’s attraction to Nas, Kelis, and the countless other divorcees. You’d instead focus on what the process means to you and how you intend to make it work.

    Or, just don’t get married. But, don’t blame the divorce rate on your actions. It’s all about you.

  • Maurice Dolberry

    Reply Reply August 4, 2009

    Cococovergirl Says:

    Ladies, in the beginning stages of a relationship/courtship or whatever you’d like to call it. You should ask basic questions like what’s your first and last name, do you have children? if not, do you see children in your future. How do you feel about marriage and so forth.

    If this conversation is anywhere within the beginning stages, I’m out. Quickly. I’ll leave a puff of smoke in my body shape like they used to do in the cartoons. I have no problem with my last name or whether I have children. Other than that? I’m going to get the impression that the woman wants to move WAY too fast for me. I think this strategy may scare off many men, including the “good ones”.

    Monica Says:

    Any hesitation on “his” (or her) part has more to do with a lack of personal conviction. People have not found ways to live for themselves, think for themselves and act according to their own paradigm. Why should Nas and Kelis’ failed marriage affect your ability to make a marriage work? Do you intend to follow in their footsteps and make their mistakes?

    50% of marriages end in divorce. Nas and Kelis are not the exception, but are almost the rule. I don’t expect to make their mistakes, but the other 49.999% of marriages that end similar to theirs does make for a helluva case. And how many of them thought that they were in the other 50% when they got hitched?

  • EA

    Reply Reply August 17, 2009

    There’s some good stuff above!
    Anyone else heard talk about Socrates’ marital views! (Surely stolen ancient African)

    Socratic view of Marriage:
    http://tinyurl.com/6deeco

    “In this sense, then Socrates didn’t treat marriage as a playground, but as a training-arena or boot-camp; his wife wasn’t supposed to meekly submit to him or obey him, but to challenge him and make him stronger; he didn’t demand that the other person in his relationship make him happy, but instead seemed to treat all of his experiences – the fights, misunderstandings, scoldings, tantrums, and everything else that probably took place within the marriage – as opportunities to learn from and become stronger.”

  • EA

    Reply Reply August 17, 2009

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